Websites Documenting Feminist Related Exhibitions

http://www.moca.org/wack/

http://www.brooklynmuseum.org/exhibitions/global_feminisms/

http://www.centrepompidou.fr/Pompidou/Manifs.nsf/0/44638F832F0AFABFC12575290030CF0D?OpenDocument&sessionM=&L=1&form=

http://www.thejewishmuseum.org/exhibitions/feministpainting

"Feminist Curation and Exhibition Online", 23 Sept, 2011

>> First of all I would like to thank nancy for put together such a stimulating program an for inviting me to speak in this forum.  I also want to thank laura for putting together the feminist curating network and who has offered to pitch in and deliver this paper if in fact my voice gives out.  I have had laryngitis for the past three weeks.  I hope you can hear me and I'm delighted as well that you can read along with me because this is something quite unexpected.  By way of introduction I'm an AR art history.  ‑‑ since the 1990's, but it was really only with the invitation from the Montreal network that I began to look at websites in relation to feminist inspired exhibitions and perhaps more importantly to consider the implications of their various manifestations.  My basic premise is that unless feminist oriented exhibitions and exhibitions of women artists are fully present on‑line we risk th erase sure or disappearance from women in the new field os women in global art histories to quote GRISALDA archives matter.  ‑‑ shapes forever what we think we were an enhance what we might become.  Those who desire a more inclusive art world and museum that is foster alternatives to the status quo cannot ignore the potential of the web to shift collective consciousness.  In fact there is an URGENCY to intervening as much as possible as soon as possible as strategically as possible.  Even though the field of exhibition history is only a few decades old traditional patterns have already been inscribed.  Feminists related exhibitions an exhibitions of women artists an by women curators have been excluded from most spots on the subject.  There's new publications will rectify the situation, any such efforts will be retrospective and partial without truly altering the framing premises of what exhibition history could be.  Why my insistence on the web for transforming an transformative histories of exhibitions?  The web offer it is possibilities of attaining what communications psychological HROR LORNA Roth calls cognitive equity.  A state where stereo types, however unconscious, have been eliminate TPR‑D the moment of inscription, the result is they are no longer repeated.  Put another way if you build a history of exhibition's differently it will be different.  Initially that difference maybe merely additive, TPWU web offers the possibility of substantive changes in how histories can be constructed and transmitted.  An example of which patrick just mentioned.  In the unstraight museum.  Now many properties of the web parallel feminist values.  I want to look at these in relationship to exhibition histories.  For example the digitized nature of the web and it's multi media capabilities permit a fuller hierarchal ‑‑ exhibitions involve other TRA tradition art media or evolve during the run.  The web is inherently more democratic as it makes more exhibition material an more forms more available to more people than print material.  The available of once less accessible material raise it is bar for what various publics want and expect from galleries an museums in RAE HREUGS to exhibitions.  The accessibility of a wide range of documents mean that is researchers can make a typical connections and pose new questions.  The web also allows us to conceive of exhibitions differently, materially relate today the before an after life of exhibitions an where exhibitions travel breaks down the notion of an exhibition as a singular event by expanding it's temporal an spatial dimensions.  The web fosters linking after making connections as such it offers the possibility of considering exhibitions as more than unique masterpiece or block buster or a vanguard events an related phenomenon networks with context, and does the full name of the worldwide web indicates it offers unprecedented access to what is and has happened locally an globally so more trends enter intraculture work can be done an alternatives to predominant culture models explore more easily.  The web also allows interactivity that on a pragmatic level means knowledge is easier to expand.  Interactivity demonstrate that is knowledge is not finite it's a process that belongs in the commons an benefits from the collaboration.  The web can also be used as a tool for transparency that result ins greater understanding of the functioning of institutions and the place of exhibitions within them.  Perhaps most important for consideration is the promoting, sorry for promoting on‑line rather than print material is that today the web is usually the first and lasting encounter with an exhibition to quote nancy museums report up to ten times the number of visitors to their websites but they get to their buildings.  As CLAUDINE brown put it this morning there's previsit research.  We access on‑line reviews to obtain information before an exhibition, before even visiting the exhibition and sometimes our special on‑line exhibitions designed to accompany those on site as well as educational material.  Also, after exhibitions end information can still be found on‑line where to functions as historical documentation.  A strong web presence at minimum draws attention to the existence of feministic related exhibitions.  At the time of the first large scale feminist inspired exhibitions the web did not exist as a tool or was too new for most museums.  What I want to do is to look at websites developed in conjunction with four major early 21 century exhibitions that took advantage of the fact that museums are now expected to have sophisticated websites and also provide funds for special projects and in conjunction with large scale exhibitions.  All of the websites go beyond merely documenting the exhibition and despite limitations each website make as substantial contribution to feminist scholarship.  WACK let's just see if this is going to happen.  So art in the feminist revolution was cure rated by Connie butler for Los Angeles in 2007.  It was the first museum feminist exhibition to create a stand alone specially named website.  The state and purpose of the website was enrich visitor understanding of the exhibition and it's many components.  The exhibition itself was the first comprehensive historical examination of the international foundations an legacy of feminist art.  It combined the display of 120 artists an extensive programming.  The website was conceived as an integral components of the exhibition designed to incorporate multi media and interactivity.  The stand alone format in short sites visibility and after life as it is not buried in the museums on‑line exhibition archive.  So simply by typing WACK into a Google search the WACK site will come up rather than having to go into the on‑line archive an figure out what year it was an find it that way.  Now, in contrast to the controversial cover design, sorry I should get this up a bit more.  Of the WACK catalog which featured part of Martha's Ross HRER's 1962 to 72 of playboy photo's of nude women the aesthetic of the home page are muted T. variated flesh tones used for the background and a design that echos an open book linked the print and on‑line publications.  The left page features a black and white still image from the film night cleaners by the street film collective showing a feminist political rally with as you saw before a description of the exhibition and information on the catalog and discussion of the controversy of the image on the catalog an audio tours, information on performances gallery talks, walks through revolution which were tours in the gallery itself, sorryly get that.  The videos of artists who gave tours of the exhibition Sylvia being one.  Manufacture audio tours.  Information on performances and on the public plus artist project by Suzanne lacy stories of work and survival.  I am going to scroll up.  I am purposely doing this because it mimics what you would be doing yourself if you were at home using the website.  Now, is there anyway to get that a bit that's what I want.  So the right hand side of the page is about a quarter of the size of the left and it repackages the material and adds to it and divides it into separate categories about the exhibition an about the wack site AUD you tour and lectures and events the public and AR TEUS reject.  Reviews an press and the wack catalog.  There's also about a single color installation photograph with an indication that there are 42 more images.  I am just waiting for those to come up I hope they will.  It's trying to connect.  Well, okay they will come up.  There's a no longer active wack events calendar.  And an intriguing list of exhibitions on at the same time as wack, and a hyper linked list of resources that's what I have been waiting for.  Now, the website is exemplary in it's inclusion of so much material ton exhibition.  The color of photographs itself is note worthy as is the varied configurations in which they can be found there is this dedicated area for them, but most unusually they also occur accompanying audio tours.  Now usually with down loaded audio tours you don't have images so off site you can also get a sense of what the on site exhibition looked like while you are listening to the audio tour.  Material is repeated so that it is both hard to miss and read in different context.  Authors are identify and entire lectures an presentations are included GRISELDA you are there.  The website issues of race an sexuality by placing that material early on in various sections.  Another laudable feature of the site is the aggregation of printed reviews and press coverage.  Making it very easy to track reception of the exhibition especially what happened with the wack catalog.  Now what emerges from the sense of this website is a sense that wack is a integrated scholarly politicized multi faceted contemporary phenomenon non.  By contrast the wack catalog by a valuable resource, I am having troubles here.  I apologize.  The wack call log was a much more scholarly entity here with detailed information about the artist an art works an various aspects of feminism it reveals much less about the physicality of the exhibition itself and the experience of going through it.  On the other hand the catalog was truer to the international character of the exhibition.  It was less Los Angeles and U.S. centric focused in it's presentation of the material.  The other point about the local wack site that I want to make in terms of limitation it does not record the exhibition tour.  Wack traveled to Vancouver, Washington, and New York throughout 2008 and 9.  And each institution developed it's own very simple website for it none of them linked to the MOCA website and nor did the MOCA website as I said actually indicate the tour so what does this mean for an understanding of exhibition history.  It means it's very hard to assess the effect of the exhibition in various locals and a key components of the exhibition the fact that it traveled is missing from the on‑line history.  It's often also excluded I might add from the new form of book catalog where the exhibition tours are not there.  Now, global feminisms knew direction ins con temporary art which open the same year was a very different exhibition.  It was organized to commemorate the founding of the elizabeth A Sackler center for feminist art at the Brooklyn museum.  It was co‑curated by the director of ‑‑ and art historian Linda.  It featured 88 artists from 50 countries represented with photography work and video from 1980 to the present.  The design of the website for global feminism is basic.  Black text on white ground with still photographs, despite featuring images from Bulgarian artist ‑‑ 1999 video celebrating the twinkling.  Information about the exhibition consists of a very short introductory text, a wore word annotation.  A PDF partially checklist.  Multi media section that contains a down loadable cell phone tour with an on‑line introduction.  There's a spent section as well.  The major part of the web space is devote today 44 videos of artists talks, ranging from ten to 30 minute ins length.  The videos identified by artists name only were also posted to you tube and can be down load TPR‑D I tunes you.  Clearly the curators chose to privilege the voices of artist in the exhibition and on the website N. doing so they break with traditional exhibition power structures where curators an academics speak for artists even living ones.  The videos provide an extensive archival record of artists speaking about their work and document what has become a standard feature of exhibition programming, the artists talk.  The websites provided minimal hard to find information on how the exhibition was structured and what it looked like.  Thanks to Robert to Smith New York times review we know it began with art work positioned in space around the installation that gave rise to the Sackler center.  Judy 1974 to 1979 iconic and controversial dinner party.  The exhibition then advanced through an adjacent wing of galleries.  The photographs that lead this review only shows Chicago's work and the accompany slides show of 11 works in the exhibition are not installation shots.  What are the implications of the absence of any mention of the Chicago work?  Installation photographs or even a floor plan on the website.  The discrepancy and how the curator K‑S conceive the exhibition and the representations of the exhibition on‑line are misleading if not intellectually dishonest.  Ignoring the mass of presence of Chicago's dinner party does not make it disappear.  Abandoning the opportunity to address different forms of feminisms at different times an in different places GRiSALDAs' image of the landscape is power.  ‑‑ alongside different works for a temporary exhibition was not at issue in two later exhibitions ‑‑ women artists in the collection of POMPIDOU and painting an TKPEPL TPHEUFPL in Jewish Newseum.  Both use it had occasion of the exhibition to engage in detailed and extensive research and to make that research available on‑line.  Now ELLE was the largest and, it was the largest an most dramatic exhibition of women artists to date in Europe.  According to museum statistics over two million people visited the exhibition for 20 months, the permanent collection gallery ons the entire fourth floor an eight rooms on the fifth floor were emptied of their usual fair to show five hundred works by two hundred women artists from the 20th and 21st centuries.  Curator KA mill ‑‑ use it had occasion to produce an stand alone website.  Like MOCA it has a long witch history in conjunction with temporary exhibitions.  While the feminist topic may have been precedent setting the institutional climate for extensive stand alone sites was receptive.  The L site functions as a document of the exhibition and on‑line catalog and a history of women's art and a history of feminism particularly in France.  I am trying to get this to fill the screen.  Let's try this.  Sorry.  It's organization is multi par tied almost like a web with overlapse an interweavings that encourage exploration of individual art works an the 7 exhibition themes.  The BUSY aesthetics of the site, background colors of sage, mustard gray or black and black white rand yellow text echo the variety of the content.  Unlike other websites devote today exhibitions of women's art an unlike other POPIDE U websites.  In many way this is feature follows standard French publicity conventions, notably it begins with soft mood music, punctuated by breath think sexy female sighs.  The sound?

>> Okay.  I will just stop it there.  You can just imgin a North American museum having such a feature on the home page of a website.  The seemingly cliche sexist framing images an sounds maybe aTPHOEUG in the context of a feminist exhibition, but I want to insist on the fact that they are ironic.  The size call it had mind the heave ‑‑ 1975 art must be beautiful artist must be beautiful immediately after their first appearance indicates a mocking awareness of having to sell exhibitions by and about women.  The other sections of the website are more scholarly and politicized differently.  There is extensive information on individual art works ‑‑ sorry I want out of here.  Which so on individual pages you will have especially extracts from TR from the video you will have links to the placement of the work in the thematics of the exhibition and here body slogan is the section.  It was in room 11.  Also links to other works in that section and an extensive ‑‑ on the core slogan or the body slogan section on the the other thing is there there is an interactive plan which shows the work in various places through tout museum.  Again, allows you to access information on the thematic areas an then to click in layer in to get more information on individual works.  Basically what is happening here is a multi LINKing model, models the need to consider art work in multiple contexts and not rely on standard or singular categorization models.  There is as well a broad chronological time line interactive as well.  Which situate it is art work in relation to political events, legislation, French writers, and French film.  Also what happens to women in institutions.  I am in the in the year that I want to be so I can't find what I really want.  Gallery owners in other words a much broader presentation of women's history both in the arts and outside of it.  So essentially the song POPMPIDUE site is fill W‑D material.  The navigation of the site is often unclear and makes for sometimes extra ordinarily frustrating rep SEUGS and too often art is presented as factoids.  Now, by contrast the website that was developed for shifting the gaze, painting an feminism at the Jewish museum is much more focused in it's presentation an much easier to navigate.  It is focused primarily on the history of the institution.  It include as wealth of information on the exhibition, an interview on‑line with the curator, an essay by the curator, a checklist of works in the exhibition down loadable.  An exhibition plan and an on‑line gallery which shows the works and commentary on the work and a link to the different themes of the exhibition in which the work has been grouped.  The feature that I want to point out to you about this website that I find quite amazing is an on‑line essay by Anna Marie with a dynamic graph here we go that shows the women artists and the number of art works by women on a year to year basis in the museum.  ‑‑ document this is history.  There's assortable index that lists alphabetically the artist that is were shown in the museum and when the work is collected by the museum there is a hyper link to the link.  This is a list of over five hundred 50 women artists from renaissance Italian weavers to come temporary artists an is meant to show that over time the museum has made an increased commitment to showing women artists an art work by women of all kinds.  Now surprisingly neither ELLE or shifting the gays privileges or photographs despite it's common practice to extensively document exhibitions with photographs that record the placement of art works in relation to each other the manner in which work is installed in the space in which it's exhibited.  Both museums have a policy available to the press but not to the public.  This is the economy of images that nancy has written about on the WIKI.  Sometimes these official documents can be found ton web and are supplemented by visitor generated installation photographs authorized or No. it may seem by KEU to focus on such a small matters when the websites in question are rich in material but the absence of installation photographs can and does determine what questions about exhibition practices are raised?  Now I want to conclude with statement about websites in themselves not results in feminist inspired art worlds or exhibition histories, but when the basic historical work is done ever present and accessible on‑line we can move onto other things to that end I will make some suggestions that website budget allocations be built into all exhibition proposals.  That these websites be stand alone and that there is full exhibition documentation including installation photographs that the websites are extensively tagged, hyper linked that there is a search function on them and that greater use of social media and acceptance of user generated content is very much part of the design.  Another aspect to this is the development of building open source on‑line resources.  And the WIKI that nancy started is a valuable place to building a hyper link international of feminist related exhibitions an their websites.  Lastly I want to urge training for art historians and curators and students in web design in analysis.  Three weeks ago I met a young colleague who just recently completed a master thesis.  That thesis the historicization of wack and ELLE I have gone blank and what was the third big one up there and global feminisms and I asked her did you include the websites?  And this women who had been talking to me about augmented reality and increased digitization of museum resources and you know what her response was.  It was no.  Thank you.

Respondents Katherine Ott and Beth Ziebarth discuss "Feminist Curation and Exhibitions Online"

 And so we have had joining us respondents here Katherine who is a curator at the museum at the Smithsonian.

>> Thank you it's very exciting and thank you for inviting historian of history and medicine to participate, very risky but none the less.  When you were first told I was in ‑‑ put these three topics together.  I was shockedly admit.  The first thing that went through my mind there is still feminist around that are not in textbooks or somewhere else.  I think of it in the air that we breath that's invisible to us, but it's none the less there so it was, it took me awhile to get my mind around putting those three topics together.  Great, thank you.  I prepared something because if I don't have something written in front of me I will go in many directions, so I have a couple written things.  What Beth and I have in common is that we both work in disability.  I as a curator and I also work in the history of sexuality an the history of the body and Beth does disability from a more functional aspect, but we collude and collaborate a lot on content.  My comments I want to draw attention or I want to draw upon feminist ethics in relation to access an inclusion.  I am thinking of access specifically in relation to people with disabilities and I prepared this with no idea about what R E E S A was going to say.  It actually turned out to be a relatively ‑‑

>> Separates them with other groups with inclusion around race whatever that is or racial list thinking and sexuality and gender.  It's not enough to legislation late about the right to vote or equal pay or to get married or to live where you want to live to exercise those rights you have to be able to get into the classroom and access the knowledge that's being conveyed.  You need to access the PARBGT place and the transactions that take place there.  You need museums that are prepared to meet your mind and your body with their content.  Use of technology for communication activities of daily living an mobile and other kinds of assistance is essential for autonomy, inclusion an rights.  So next I have just briefly two issues specifically of importance from museums as most of the presenters have noted there is the undeniable fact of sexism and usually hetero sexism that restricts and binds as well as greases nearly everything in the world in some way.  For museums sectionism in the form of objectiveification ‑‑ (laughter) is of major important or maybe I should do it like this.  (laughter).  Objecttyification of people in general an the museum effect of holding something up for analysis and discussion you can not help but create distancing of a certain amount in a museum setting.  Objectification is further intensified when the content relates to women and girls and for disability objectifyification because it is never interrogated.  Disabled people in western culture are universally treated as things as objects, stereo typed, essentiallized their impairment.  Prodded with well meaning insults an seldom understood as persons.  This is true from the first surgeries an diagnosis in a medical setting on the street in the produce aisle of the super market and in office cubicle.  It is the gays in all of it's OLYPIAN power.  Making disability content very complicated to present and nearly impossible to pull the disability content in imagery and objects out because visitors just won't get it.  They are so unuse today seeing it.  So many of the image that is were shown today had disability content, but even, but largely invisible and hard to talk about.  In a media saturated world when it comes to disintent bodies whether female or disabled it is impossible to avoid objectification of all parties by each other.  You can't get around it but you have to bring it to the surface.  An age old problem with museum display and one that continues on with new media is the way we exclude nonspecialists.  Those not lit rate in the subject or the language used in the display and the inexperience those who haven't read the books by the famous people who don't know the theory, a fairly high level of literacy is needed to access information with much new media.  Not only financial resources to purchase an maintain and upgrade devices to have a fast server or to be connected to the internet, but basic programs an apps and such exclusion is very easy an often invisible.  The old boys network and the privileges that come with it among other thing S‑S an expression of the insular nature of information privilege.  When we become the experts or specialists as feminists we need to exercise our responsibility to take others with us.  We cannot save our information or our resources for a select few which is what you were talking about.  We need to produce what we know in ways that aa range of people can access it.  We need to speak simply an clearly and explain slowly because that is howdy versety happens, that's how difference thrives an thousand happiness increases.  New media must not become another version of the old boys club.  Lastly, the material in sensory aspects of the museum experience or of particular significance to the learning styles of many kinds of people including people with disabilities in this regard new media can be misleading or out right exclusionary.  It's the difference between viewing an eight and a half by 11 photograph or on the web an image on the corset and seeing one worn or a tactile learner or someone who has to touch something in three dimensions or talk to someone to be able to understand it.  To some extent this dismin nichement of the reflects and it foregrounds the false sensuality of the marketplace.  We are unindated of sites an sounds and we are deprived of actual physical pleasure unnourishing food an entertainment and products and appeal to the imagination but not to the sensory body is left out.  That's what museums an a gallery experience can put back into the mix.  New media can overwhelm us with information experiences an the excitement of that ‑‑ substitutes often for physical contact which is critical for many people in their learning process.  So those are by prepared remarks.  Now, for a question which doesn't really have to do with my prepared remarks.  My question is about when you were talking about the benefits of the web one of the things you mentioned was that it's, it's beneficial because it's circumvents the singular nature of the exhibition.  Is the singularity antifeminist or something that you need to circumvent why is that a value on the web?

>> Okay.  I will begin answering that by saying that nothing substitutes for the singularity of the experience of an exhibition on site.  It's the materiality, the pleasure that you were speaking about and the pleasure is not just sense ‑RBL pleasure it's also intellectual pleasure.  I was very much remined of that yesterday when I had a couple of hours an I went to the national gallery here and looked at the work and how it was displayed and also some of the special exhibitions.  That was to me a completely in a sense separate kind of experience from exhibitions on‑line and the way I use that material as documents, historical documents.  And what concerns me is this notion of that's often apply today art works as singular masterpieces.  It gets shifted over to exhibitions as landmark exhibitions or singular exhibitions and as such it excludes the nonsingular landmark events.  That's my concern that there's a history and a context that gets excluded and with the web, with hyper links you are encouraged to see what that context is.  When I go to an exhibition in a museum in a sense it's removed from a context unless I have that expertise in advanced or it's written in the wall text labels.  When I am learning about exhibitions as exhibitions I think it's really important that they be seen in a historical context because then you could ask all kinds of questions about them.  And perhaps one of the ways I would answer your question and I have been thinking about some of the things I did insert, and that is TR's not enough use of the web in the documentation of exhibitions and particularly feminist inspired exhibitions to use the interrogative.  To actually ask questions.  Either questions about how this exhibition relates to the history of exhibition or relates to other exhibitions.  In other words what your question stimulates in me is an awareness although I am advocating stand alone websites that can feed into the singular exhibition unless there's methods within the website itself to create broad spread connections.  I am not sure that's an answer to your question.

>> Okay.  Beth's turn.

>> Well, my question is very similar I think to what we were just talking about, and with disability you most often do not have physical exhibition to go along with the topic.  And is there a different value to seeing objects relate today disability only in photos on a website rather than a real object on display in a museum.  I think you talked about that already.  Can there be a transformative encounter via website?

>> I think there can be transformative on‑line or on site or insitU there ice actually exhibition outside on artists with disabilities.  I was absolutely struck with it as an exhibition in a national museum context.  I had never encountered that before?  Would I have encountered that on‑line I'm not sure?  I doubt it unlesson line material is funneled an channeled differently.  And this is something that nancy has written about the need for more distributive museum that uses social media rather than master slave in publicity rather the push pull theories.  Sorry push material out to people or you find ways of pulling them in.  If on one of my list serves I have received a notification preferably about an exhibition about people with disables or the topic of disability in exhibitions I probably would have clicked on the hyper link.  Would I have found it on my own not necessarily.  So I think it transformative moments can occur both ways.  I think both media if you will the museum and the web can be used to expand our consciousness.

>> I have another one.  Thinking about it I really have never thought about having images of installations on the website that goes with the exhibition we don't do that really, once if awhile but not usually.  So how say it's 15 years from now and you are accessing the or like with wack which is ‑‑ you look at the gallery review and the galleries have completely changed.  How much forward looking or backward looking interpretation do you do to explain what a gallery is and why things are hung the way they are or placed the way they are.  What kind of obligation for interpretation or explanation do you have do you just put the picture up an let people figure it out?

>> You ask a very good question.  I think it's also very much related to the fact that the field of exhibition histories is relatively new.  The knowledge of this history is in the process of being developed so that's number one.  The second part of that is essentially you are asking us to ask a different kind of question than has been asked before.  The first was you know why don't you put installation photographs on the web?  So once you do that you can start to ask other kinds of questions.  Now GRISELDA mentioned to me last night that she had seen wack in all of it's four exhibition sites.  She commented on how the art looked differently in each of those sites.  I believe you mentioned Washington as being optimal for the work on display because most of the work was two dimensional and still and relatively small scale and it worked very well in the rooms there.  Whereas in the LA MOCA site which I showed you the actual site of the website it was more of a contemporary garage exhibition space which has a certain unfinished raw quality to it.  If there had been if you will a meta category for the documentation of the wack exhibition that showed all of the four sites an the way the exhibition looked differently I suspect your question would probably come up and hopefully someone would include a hyper link to a minihistory of various forms of the way work is displayed and the implications of cytoart work in terms of interpretation and response.

>> In an ideal world of course.  (laughter)

>> Beth:  I guess my last question would be how do you envision using mobile generated content for visitors in the exhibition histories?

>> Give me an example of what you would call mobile generated content?

>> I'm thinking of crowd sourced material from an exhibition so visitors are allowed to record their observations or descriptions of an object and how you would take that material and make it part of, would that be something you would want as part of the record for exhibition history.

>> Most of the websites actually have within each section a place for comments.  Now, that's not quite the same thing that you are talking about.  So idealy there would be a place for exhibition on the websites.  It does occur in terms as we know in flicker.  If you do an image search for a lot of exhibitions you will get that information.  You will also get the blog information, so it's out there if you do a search.  I think what you are talking about is how do you bring that material together and how do you work with it?

>> Right.

>> I would leave that for museum people to figure out because I think it is important, it addresses the issue of assumption that was raised this morning.  We assume all kinds of things about visitors an their responses which are not true as we know if we get those responses back.  Also, there's the whole issue of the knowledge that people have and ‑‑ and the different perspectives, finding a way to incorporate crowd source information and knowledge I think is key to truly expanding notions of difference and accessibility in a museum and on museum websites.

>> Very good.

>> Thank you

>> Applause.